Just walked out on a car purchase due to a mandatory arbitration clause... Wife not happy.

"dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter" (dsigned001)
05/24/2018 at 00:00 • Filed to: None

Trying to buy a 2010 Mercedes R Class (the Mercedes minivan-looking crossover). First day they told us they couldn’t take a deposit to hold the car. Called back today and they said they would hold it for a $500 deposit. So we go back, again, with all three monkeys in tow, again, arriving around 6pm with cash (a check and cashier’s check technically) in hand. At 8pm, after we’ve spent two hours doing paperwork, they hand us the binding arbitration. They told us they couldn’t still us the car if we didn’t sign it. I was (and am) not a happy camper. 845 we finally get the monkeys dinner (they had had snacks in the meantime), and get back around 930. Monkeys in tears because we didn’t get the car with the TV screens. Wife not happy because she didn’t get her car... Ugh.

DISCUSSION (22)

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 00:14

Good job bud. It’s worth the frustration to get what you feel like you need.

camarov6rs > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 00:27

If be really interested to see if you can find a dealer that a. Doesn’t have an arb clause or b. Is willing to cross out one.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 00:34

Well it looks like you’re gonna have to get a Tesla instead.

dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter > camarov6rs
05/24/2018 at 00:41

We bought my Matrix a little over a year ago. I don’t seem to remember signing an arbitration clause there. Much smaller, mom and pop type dealer though. Hell, I don’t think I would have begrudged them an arbitration clause. These guys are owned by Sonic though, which apparently is one of the big dealer networks.

dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
05/24/2018 at 00:43

If only...

dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
05/24/2018 at 00:44

I’m mad all around. Mad that they have that shit to begin with. Mad that they didn’t bring it up till after we were into hour four of the process...

boxrocket > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 01:15

So what’a the next move? Find an R-class somewhere else like CarMax, or go with a different car? Ford Flex, M-Class, XC90, CX-9?

and 100 more > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 01:34

Forgive me, but what is a mandatory binding arbitration clause and why is it a deal breaker?

tpw_rules > and 100 more
05/24/2018 at 01:38

It means you give up your rights to sue them in case something happened. You instead go through ‘arbitration’, which is as stacked against you as they can possibly make it.

RPM esq. > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
05/24/2018 at 01:45

Tesla’s purchase agreement has a mandatory arbitration clause and class waiver, and because they sell the cars directly, it’s a lot farther-reaching than some dealer’s agreement. Basically, you can’t sue Tesla about ANYTHING without invoking it. At least if you buy a car from a dealer, the dealer’s arbitration clause isn’t effective against the manufacturer.

RPM esq. > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 01:48

Kudos to you for taking a stand, and these agreements are generally poison, but I’m genuinely curious to hear what the alternative is. Is it just a private sale on AutoTrader or Craigslist, since we’re talking about a used car? It’s not like a basic bill of sale and title release give you much of a right of action against the seller— “as is” means “as is,” after all. The dealer’s arbitration agreement obviously makes it hard to recover against the dealer for anything they did wrong, but it’s not going to be effective against the manufacturer if the car has a defect.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 01:57

Ford Flex = better mercedes R-class Especially with ecoboost.

His Stigness > RPM esq.
05/24/2018 at 01:58

I would think, based off my zero experience in the field, and only a year of school, that a judge would throw out a clause that prohibits class action lawsuit?

I don’t know, it just seems a little far reaching.

Future Heap Owner > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 02:02

Props to you for taking a stand against this crap. Sorry your day got ruined.

RPM esq. > His Stigness
05/24/2018 at 02:27

You’d think so, wouldn’t you? Well, unfortunately for every consumer and working person in the country—so essentially everyone—you’re wrong. In fact, the Supreme Court said so just this week: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/business/supreme-court-upholds-workplace-arbitration-contracts.html

See also, e.g., DIRECTV, Inc. v. Imburgia , No. 14-462 (Dec. 14, 2015); AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion , 563 U.S. 333 (2011); American Express Corp. v. Italian Colors Restaurant , 133 S. Ct. 2304 (2013).

random001 > camarov6rs
05/24/2018 at 06:40

Haven’t seen one at a Subaru dealership yet, and I’ve bought a few non-Subaru’s from Subaru dealerships because they’re so great to work with.

random001 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
05/24/2018 at 06:40

I love the Flex. I hate that the Ecoboosts are either hard to find, or really expensive.

Khalbali > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 07:52

Because that far in most people will just sign it.

Ash78, voting early and often > dsigned001 - O.R.C. hunter
05/24/2018 at 08:29

In Alabama, this is the norm at every dealership. I don’t know why — strong lobbyists for the lawyers, or maybe the noble idea that they don’t want to tie up courts over every minor car complaint —but it’s the norm. I’ve yet to hear it actually cause problems for anyone, since any serious problems will attract good attorneys and they’ll blast right through arbitration.

It’s just a hurdle for consumers to prevent frivolous lawsuit, in theory.

ateamfan42 > tpw_rules
05/24/2018 at 10:06

You instead go through ‘arbitration’, which is as stacked against you as they can possibly make it.

Right. The idea of arbitration in itself wouldn’t be so bad, but many of these clauses allow the dealer and/or manufacturer to select the arbitrator. So instead of getting a unbiased third party to arbitrate, you get someone sympathetic to the dealer/manufacturer side.

His Stigness > RPM esq.
05/24/2018 at 11:19

While I do think class actions have gotten nuts, and the fact that we have laws to make sure class action lawyers get massive paydays, that ruling is insane. I wonder how Gorsuch was able to write this with a straight face,

“... the virtues Congress originally saw in arbitration, its speed and simplicity and inexpensiveness, would be shorn away and arbitration would wind up looking like the litigation it was meant to displace.”

But I’m sure we can expect congress to remedy this right away...

RPM esq. > His Stigness
05/24/2018 at 13:18

What law “makes sure” the lawyers who bring class actions “get massive paydays”? The law has been rapidly changing to make class actions as difficult as possible, if not impossible (see citations above), and the lawyers who front the risk and expense of these (very large, complicated, and expensive) cases only get paid if they win, and then only what a court will grant them. No other type of lawyer gets paid only if they win or is beholden to a court to get paid at all. If anything, class actions are a license to print money for the lawyers who defend them and get paid hourly the whole way, win or lose. While it’s obviously possible to make a lot of money bringing class actions, really only by bringing and winning the biggest and most complicated cases in the world, and it’s by far the riskiest business proposition in the legal world, already one of the hardest to do successfully, and only getting harder. As with any area of the law, there are certainly some bad apples in the class action bar, and frivolous cases certainly get brought from time to time (and, largely, dismissed), but frankly I don’t currently see anyone else doing much to protect the rights of ordinary people against the robber barons who run this country.